The Official Buffalo Bills Thread

[vinnypunditsheros]

I'm not ready to give up on Losman yet. I would have been pretty pissed if they drafted one of the top QBs in this year's draft. I might change my mind in a few years, but at the time of the draft they had millions of dollars invested in JP and they had not seen what he could do yet.

At times he's looked good, but he's also looked like garbage. The ref should never strip a quarterback of the football. JP should protect the ball more, but there's not a lot he can do when some defender comes in untouched on his blind side. Any QB in the league would get repeatedly raped behind this O-line. Not any QB could scramble around for thirty yards behind the line of scrimmage before throwing a 50 yard TD to Rosco Parrish or running for a first down like he did against Detroit.

As for Mel Kiper, if he was such a great expert at evaluating talent, he'd be a goddam NFL general manager, or at least a scout. Fuck him, and I hope he has a retarded kid.

[southhampton]

thedean said:

Hell, Matt Schaub seen action in more games than Losman, and he's a backup.

Matt Schaub may have played in more games, but it was only to hand off and run out he clock so vick wouldnt get injured.
Schaub has played in 6 games this year, here is his stat line
6 games, no passes attempted, 4 rushes for 0 yards. Check out his stats, except for a few spots starts hes had no real experience. JP is light years ahead of him in terms of NFL playing time.

JP losman is pretty much '04s version of Kyle Boller. Great measurables but is just not very good at playing QB.

[vinnypunditsheros]

Well shit, neither were Drew Brees, Jake Delhomme, Matt Hasselbeck, or Rex Grossman. Granted, Grossman's been hurt every year but even with him at the helm the Bears didn't do jack.
JP's better than he was last year. He had a bad day against Chicago, but so did every QB exept for Leinart, who went out and lost to Oakland the following week. He threw for 300 yards and a couple scores against the Jets, but that's overshadowed by two costly fumbles from getting sacked from behind (McGahee took the blame for one), and an interception downfield into the wind. At leat he's taking shots. He had a bad game against New England last week, but again how many NFL quarterbacks can say different? Look what the did to Carson Palmer.

He looked good or decent in four or five of seven games this year. New England, Miami, Jets, Minnesota, Detroit. He looked terrible against Chicago and New England. But he's progressing. We still need more time to make a decision on this guy.

[s dot carter]

vinnypunditsheros said:

Well poop, neither were Drew Brees, Jake Delhomme, Matt Hasselbeck, or Rex Grossman. Granted, Grossman's been hurt every year but even with him at the helm the Bears didn't do jack.
JP's better than he was last year. He had a bad day against Chicago, but so did every QB exept for Leinart, who went out and lost to Oakland the following week. He threw for 300 yards and a couple scores against the Jets, but that's overshadowed by two costly fumbles from getting sacked from behind (McGahee took the blame for one), and an interception downfield into the wind. At leat he's taking shots. He had a bad game against New England last week, but again how many NFL quarterbacks can say different? Look what the did to Carson Palmer.

He looked good or decent in four or five of seven games this year. New England, Miami, Jets, Minnesota, Detroit. He looked terrible against Chicago and New England. But he's progressing. We still need more time to make a decision on this guy.

I'm getting sick of all of the qualifiers we give for JP Losman.

He threw for 300 yards and a couple scores against the Jets, but that's overshadowed by two costly fumbles from getting sacked from behind (McGahee took the blame for one), and an interception downfield into the wind. At leat he's taking shots.

The bar is set so low for him that his two fumbles and interception are completely written off as excusable by you. They are not excusable. Not every QB fumbles when sacked from behind. Granted, its more likely to happen when getting hammered from behind, but my problem centers mostly about his football awareness.

Good QB's sense that blindside pressure and move away from it. Losman has no idea its coming at all. Losman was sacked by a guy coming right at him front the front Sunday and still fumbled. His interception came as he stared at Lee Evans for 5 seconds before throwing it right to the safety. And has a player in the history of the NFL ever been forced to fumble by a referee??

*He had a decent game against NE to open the season that was overshadowed by a game-losing sack for a safety (huge mistake).

*He played an efficient, mistake-free game in Miami and passed for 86 yards or so. But he was good that day.

*He was decent against the Jets, but three turnovers (all by JP) cost Buffalo the game. His best drive came with 4 minutes left and Buffalo down by 15.

*He played a solid game against Minnesota,

*only to look like a fan-contest winner who got to start an NFL game against Chicago. At least we broke the shutout with 12 seconds left after Chicago fumbled away a chance to keep the ball out of our hands for what would've been a definite shutout.

*He was not good against the Lions as vinny claims. The whole team was garbage that day, but the offense only managed 3 yards in the first half. His best drive again came late in the game with Buffalo trailing by two scores. When the game was on the line though, he was useless.

*Finally, New England made him look like a jittery rookie and that was his 15TH!! start.

I've called for patience with Losman all along, but its becoming very clear to me he doesn't have the smarts or the intangibles that make QB's great. I say give him two more weeks, and if things don't improve we have to see what we've got in Craig Nall. I've been saying all along I think Nall can be the next Jake Delhomme. Maybe we'll get to find out soon.

[vinnypunditsheros]

I'm not writing off his turnovers, but I'm not ready to throw him under the bus yet either. I've mentioned that stupid ref fumble a few times already. Turnovers are a part of football, and right now seem to be a big part of JP's game.
If they draft another quarterback, they'd be starting all over anyway with a hit or miss situation.
It's the same thing with Nall. They'd be starting from scratch with an unproven quarterback. The coaching staff thinks JP's better, and that works for me.

I'm not Johnny JP Cheerleader; he deserves his share of the blame. But so does everyone everyone else, mostly the offensive line. It went neglected for years under Donahoe, who went all out signing and drafting big name skill players while ignoring the trenches.

JP's had some bad days and shitty plays. He's also had good days and great plays. I'm willing to give him a little more time to sort it out while the team shores up the line.

[mikenice]

dean, I never said Losman had an abundance of experience and should be judged right now. All I did was say that you can't pass judgement on a player not even half way through his rookie season (in this case more than one rookie), and then turn around and say, "I'm not convinced either way on Losman".

Let's say JP goes on to start the rest of the season and the Bills finish, say, 5-11/6-10. Losman would have plenty of starting experience and playing time. So, would a quarterback with a bad starting record but the ability to consistently crack the starting lineup be a good 1st round pick?

Rookies see plenty of playing time on bad teams. The Bills are not a good team. It's just way too early to judge the 2006 draft class.

I've seen guys drafted in the late rounds or undrafted that make an immediate impact then are out of the league in two years. I've seen early round picks who don't start for a year or three that turn out to be stars.

Anyone remember Carlos Hall? He was a 7th round pick for the Titans about 5 years ago at DE. He was among the league leaders in sacks through the beginning of the year. He finished with 8. Next year he had 3, then 2.5. Goes to KC the next year has one sack and now he's out of the league.

Granted, its more likely to happen when getting hammered from behind

This gay line reminded me of Tiki Barber's line the other night. When asked about his retirment statement, he said something like, "I've just been getting pounded..". Even the faggy Giants fans I was watching the game with had to laugh and make fun of that, since Tiki's voice fuels the homosexuality of lines like that.

[mikenice]

Patrick Ramsey
Shaun King


Brad Johnson isn't too accurate a comparison right now. Johnson was a great athlete when he was younger. I believe he played basketball at FLA ST. But as long as I've been watching he's a quiet, sneaky athlete. He runs when he has to and is cautious.

The reason I don't compare him to Losman is because Johnson is the ultimate in safe quarterbacking. He's very accurate, though his stats don't always show it because he'll gladly throw the ball away instead of taking a sack or forcing a pass. Johnson has won wherever he's been, so for Bills fans sake, hopefully he can be anywhere close to that.

This might sound weird, but I'd compare him to David Carr. Carr worked under Jeff Tedford for a year at Fresno State. Same QB guru that's given us Joey Harrington, Kyle Boller and Aaron Rogers. I can't remember the Tulane coach, but he allowed three consecutive quarterbacks to flourish in college putting up all-conference numbers. King was first, he was a 2nd round pick of the Bucs. Then Ramsey at the end of the first round to Wash. Two years later it's Losman at the back half of the first round.

Carr plays behind a terrible O-line, so does Losman. They both have had coaching changes already. Neither has had a serious offensive coach (Carr now has Kubiak, though). They have the measurables. They make some real nice throws, then they force plenty. And their fans wanted them to be replaced via the draft this past year. Carr by Vince Young (stupid Houston/Longhorn fans), and Leinhart/Cutler by some Bills fans.

[mikenice]

We'll see if Losman can put up the same numbers Brees did in his first 16 game season - his second year.

I'll give you the comparison in situation, though. Pro Bowl runningbacks, bad offensive lines, below average group of recievers & Tight ends. Average Defense.

When Brees started to come on, the O-line was solid, Tomlinson was always nasty, McCardell came over and Gates emerged. The D got better, but not great until this past year.

Brees has always been known as an accurate passer, and ultimate QB mind. His knocks were physical - short, not a great arm.

I haven't seen Losman enough this year to say whether I've seen legitimate signs of a good QB.

Edit to add: Carr was drafted to an expansion team. And with the salary cap, etc. you can't really sit a 1st round pick QB on the bench for too long.

[wally]

Mikenice,

The Bills draft class of '06 and JP Losman are two different issues. I'm willing to give Losman this entire season before I decide if I think the Bills should stick with him or go a different way.

The guy backed up Drew Bledsoe in his rookie season and started at games in his second season. He's 7 games into his first full season starting in the NFL, I'm willing to give him a full 16 (barring injury).

The Bills draft class...performing much better than expected. They're two separate entities, which is why I'm willing to say praise them while not make a decision on Losman.

[southhampton]

Im all for the bills giving JP Losman the whole year to figure out whether he is thier QB of the future. The main reason being that they have no one else on their roster that has a chance of being the future of the bills. I do not think that the JP is a franchise type quarterback. I see him as more of a Quincy Carter, Kyle Boller, or Shaun King type player. I think he will have flashes of brilliance, but i dont think that ever be consistant.

I also do not fault the Bills for picking Whitner, although i do not agree with it. The pick helped the team get better and was the "safe" pick. Whitner will probably end up being a very good safety in the NFL.

That being said i think the best pick that the bills made this year was Ellison. I was hoping the Jets would pick him to play some OLB in their new 3-4.

[mikenice]

The difference between Losman and the '06 draft class is that JP's a quarterback. Therefore, you can read his progress and assess him. Unless you watch tape on all those draft picks you mentioned you have no idea how they truly look. The only thing anyone sees is that they're in the lineup and if they happen to make a play. It's much harder to assess guys you're not watching on every play.

I bet the Texans 02 draft class had a huge amout of contributors through the first season. I'm also willing to bet that a majority of those players weren't on the team two or three years later. Just because they get playing time on a bad team doesn't mean they're good.

Judge the draft class by how much of an impact it has on the team winning. If in two years the Bills are a team above .500 and there are a couple starters and guys in the rotation it was a good draft. But, if Whitner's the only starter and only two other guys stay on the team in solely back-up and special teams roles it wasn't a good draft.

Being the #8 pick in the draft you can't JUST be a good player. If you pick someone in the top 10 you expect them to be a pro-bowler. If he isn't then he can't be a great pick. He could still be a decent pick, but he needs to be a big impact.

[vinnypunditsheros]

That JP sure quieted the naysayers yesterday with his 100 yard, 1 TD performance against the worst pass defense in the NFL! Indy's going down next weekend, baby!

A few of my brother's buddies came in to the game from Bonnies yesterday. Rumor has it one booted on my grandmother's front lawn before her 89th birthday party, then passed out in the back seat of his car.

[mrsmiff]

Vinny - that is absolutely true. We drank pretty hard saturday night and paid for it sunday morning.

After the game, Vinny's brother made the guys who he drove to the game with come into his 90 yr old grandma's house for "a quick burger". They were exhausted and pretty drunk still. Turns out they sat at the dinner table with the entire family... aunts, uncles, cousins.. The entree of this meal? - turkey burgers on wheat bread.

The Kennedy family is one of a kind

[mikenice]

I'm guessing the culprit was Shark.

[vinnypunditsheros]

The turkey burgers on wheat bread were cooked up because those guys wouldn't be around when the pizza and wings arrived. I sure wanted one. I was starving. I nibbled on celery and dip and barbecue goldfish crackers until it did.

I didn't know what my bro was thinking. We work together in the Van Miller suite, and I couldn't beleive it when he said he was bringing his shitfaced college buddies into our grandmother's birthday party. I don't think those boys were very comfortable meeting all the out of town relatives.
"This is my aunt from New Mexico. Aunt Terri, this is my friend who puked on your mother's front lawn for her birthday, then drank beer all morning and afternoon watching football."

I felt bad for those guys, but I also found it hilarious.