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Post by CosmonautLaunchPad on Oct 24, 2006 13:08:38 GMT -5
Agreed that McGahee would be a great RB with an offensive line to run behind. Not as good as Ronnie Brown would be if he had a line.
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kcsbu03
Bevel in Training
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Post by kcsbu03 on Oct 24, 2006 13:10:34 GMT -5
I'll say it again, though: Levy has taught everyone a lesson about drafting. Every commentator ripped the Bills for their draft clas this year. But they've been proven wrong. It turned out that these guys had to play, and they did. They're NFL players. They're playing like rookies, sure, but they're clearly incredibly talented players -- the most talented on the team -- and will be wicked good after a year or two in the league. But you don't hear Kiper or Berman or anyone them talking about that, do you? I have to disagree there. People werent ripping the Bills for the players they took, they ripped them for when they took them. Whitner is a pretty good player but at #8? I think they could have managed that draft much better. If you want Whitner, you could trade down and pick up a draft pick and still draft him at like 13 or 14. Im not even a Bills fan (go giants!) but since they are my local team i cant help but pay attention to them. They botched the draft last year. |
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Post by CosmonautLaunchPad on Oct 24, 2006 14:35:41 GMT -5
I'll say it again, though: Levy has taught everyone a lesson about drafting. Every commentator ripped the Bills for their draft clas this year. But they've been proven wrong. It turned out that these guys had to play, and they did. They're NFL players. They're playing like rookies, sure, but they're clearly incredibly talented players -- the most talented on the team -- and will be wicked good after a year or two in the league. But you don't hear Kiper or Berman or anyone them talking about that, do you? I have to disagree there. People werent ripping the Bills for the players they took, they ripped them for when they took them. Whitner is a pretty good player but at #8? I think they could have managed that draft much better. If you want Whitner, you could trade down and pick up a draft pick and still draft him at like 13 or 14. Im not even a Bills fan (go giants!) but since they are my local team i cant help but pay attention to them. They botched the draft last year. They sure did. When will General Managers and coaches realize a simple fact. You'll never be criticized for taking a player like Leinhart or Cutler if they turn out to be busts, but if you reach for a guy like Whitner and a guy like Leinhart or Cutler turns out to be great, you will never hear the end of it. I still am pissed the Dolphins passed on Drew Brees a bunch of years back in the draft. They picked Jamar Fletcher, a bum of a cornerback who they later traded to **surprise** San Diego for next to nothing. Then they passed on him again for the biggest piece of shit QB ever Daunte Culpepper. Correction, Drew Bledsoe is the biggest piece of shit QB ever. That fucktard has cost me and Heemeehead about 3 wins in a big money fantasy league. |
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Post by s dot carter on Oct 24, 2006 15:12:05 GMT -5
thedean, between the Sabres and the Bills thread today, I like your line of thinking a lot. Levy wanted Whitner so he picked him, plain and simple.
And cosmo, I agree with you to an extent about you can't be faulted for taking Leinart or Cutler even if they are busts. But if I knew a GM picked Leinart just because he couldn't get criticized for it, I'd want him fired on the spot. The Bills liked Whitner and they took him. I don't see much fault in that. If Whitner doesn't pan out, its not because they took him too high or low or anything, its because they suck at evaluating talent, and thats the real purpose
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Post by southhampton on Oct 24, 2006 15:14:04 GMT -5
The Jets?!
The Jets had no interest in Whitner in the 1st round, none. We had needs at Oline, RB, and OLB and had two young starting safeties. Whitner was a reach at that pick, great player, just picked earlier than anyone thought he would go.
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kcsbu03
Bevel in Training
Posts: 38
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Post by kcsbu03 on Oct 24, 2006 15:15:19 GMT -5
It makes perfect sense. The Jets had the 4th pick in the draft so they wouldnt pick again until the 2nd round. Buffalo could have traded down and grabbed someone else. Its like taking Jake Delhomme in the 3rd round of a fantasy draft. Sure he will score you some points but you could take someone else there and still get Jake in like the 6th round. So its a waste to take him in the 3rd. Whitner is the same way. They fucked up. You should buy that crap cause its true. The Giants wanted Sinorice Moss, they knew that could take him later so they traded with Pittsburgh and got a draft pick out of it and then took Moss a few picks later. Its called smart management.
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Post by mikenice on Oct 24, 2006 17:02:02 GMT -5
Talk about someone ranting on something they know nothing about. Is Brady a scrambler? No. Is he immobile? By all means, no. Watch a game before you compare Mr. Statue to anyone. If you knew half of what you claim to know there wouldn't be so many errors in your ridiculous amounts of posts on this thread today.
Notre Dame's overall talent is by far weaker than all these other BCS teams. Willingham, after a solid recruiting class (Quinn, and the current seniors) flopped his next two years recruiting - both classes were ranked outside the top 30. Not only were they poor in quality, but quantity also. There are two sophomore offensive linemen on scholarship, no juniors and two seniors (two 5th years and 6 freshmen). Linebackers and D-line is about the same.
ND can't run the ball or pass block. Yet, Quinn is putting up great numbers and Winning games. He runs a pro offense, and has the burden of a bad defense on his back. Up to this point they have played the hardest schedule in the country.
While I think he hasn't been as sharp as he could be, he's a legit Quarterback. Is he a sure thing at the next level? No. Almost no quarterback is.
The whole argument about the Bills saying the Jets were going to snatch up Whitner doesn't make sense to me. KC's argument was that the Bills were scrutinized for taking him too high, and he said they could've dropped down a few spots to take him. You said the Jets, sitting at pick 29, were eyeing Whitner. Why would the Jets jump 15+ spots to grab him? Moving that far up would have cost them a future 1st rounder on top of pick 29.
No. 8 pick was extremely valuable with two franchise QB's still sitting on the board.
Whether he tried to trade it or not, nobody knows. But it's incorrect for you to judge a draft class 7 weeks into its rookie year. Just like we can't say it was a bust, you can't say it wasn't. Larry Johnson sure looked like a bust/wasted pick by the Chiefs his first two years in the league.
There are draft RUMORS on every team's website. There's tons of false information spewed out before, during and after the draft. Make sure you take time to think a scenario through before you believe every rumor a writer hears.
Not to split hairs and point out some more errors, but you're right Mario Williams and Julius Peppers-type players tend to be drafted in the top 5. Tommie Harris was drafted 14th, though.
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Post by mikenice on Oct 24, 2006 19:23:54 GMT -5
You just struck a nerve with me because I've been reading more and more about Quinn being overrated. The Irish in general were overrated at the beginning of the year, but they'd be nowhere close to 6-1 with an average QB.
In a magazine at the beginning of the year, there was an excerpt from an anonymous head coach that was saying he thought Weis was arrogant cause he didnt' shoot the shit with him before the game. He went on to say, "they're an average team, he's just got a great quarterback".
That same magazine, had a college football section and one category was, is Quinn still the top pick in the draft? Trev Alberts said if you want a QB, the search starts with Quinn. He's been in Weis' NFL system for two years. Gary Danielson said, and I'll quote, "I would have trouble taking him as the No. 1 pick. Is he getting the benefit of superior coaching? Are his plays easier than others' plays? How well will he play when he has to fight with even talent? There are probably much safer picks than Brady."
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I'm not saying everyone should think he's the top pick next year. But how is having superior coaching a detractor for a quarterback? I could see if it was superior "college coaching". Meaning guys like Spurrier and Jeff Tedford who's QBs look great in college but don't translate to the NFL. Those are the guys that usually have those "easier" plays that don't compute to the pro systems. It's not like he's running the spread option or the Fun 'n Gun.
This is basically the offense he ran in New England. And as far as "even talent", he plays solid teams week in and week out (until this upcoming stretch of games) and critics say the team is overrated. They have a bad defense, no depth, etc. They aren't a top 10 talented team. A good quarterback and coach can make up for that, though.
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wally
Bevel in Training
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Post by wally on Oct 24, 2006 20:46:00 GMT -5
I'm going to have to borrow a phrase from Brad Riter to sum up my feelings about draft picks. Fuck Mel Kiper. In Whitner's case, the Ravens were the team that was interested in taking him. The Bills wanted him, so they stayed at 8 where they knew they could get him.
McCargo is another player they wanted badly. From what I've heard, they had good information that the Giants were very interested in McCargo and planned to take him with the last pick in the first round (acquired from the Steelers). So, the Bills traded up to get a guy they liked.
Look at the guys they picked this year...Whitner and Simpson are the starting safeties. Kyle Williams plays a prominent role at DT. McCargo was getting into that rotation before he broke his foot. Aaron Merz got the start against the Pats at LG and Terrance Pennington is now the right guard.
I almost forgot Keith Ellison, who was solid, if unspectacular while filling in for Spikes, who has looked like a shell of his former self this season.
The only draft picks that haven't seen any playing time are Brad Butler and Ashton Youboty. Butler has been inactive for every game. But, he was the guy who fucked up Matthias Kiwanuka in college, so it pans out there.
Youboty missed most of training camp because of his mother's death and apparently Dick Jauron and staff feel that he's not ready to see the field yet, though I could see that changing since Terrence McGee is just getting picked on week after week by opposing quarterbacks.
Side note, did anyone else catch the very noticable "Let's Go Sabres" chant late in the fourth quarter of Sunday's game?
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Post by s dot carter on Oct 25, 2006 10:04:00 GMT -5
thedean, I remember the Bills thinking the Lions were interested in Whitner, not the Jets. I also remember Levy saying that if they traded down to 13 or 14, Whitner would've been gone. I didn't look up where Detroit drafted but off the top of my head they were either 9th or 11th. They could not have traded down and still landed Whitner.
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kcsbu03
Bevel in Training
Posts: 38
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Post by kcsbu03 on Oct 25, 2006 14:13:40 GMT -5
Just thought i would throw this quote in from the sports guy:
"I just don't get it. The Bills passed on Leinart because they already had J.P. Losman, which is like passing on a brand-new BMW because you're all set with your Hyundai."
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Post by CosmonautLaunchPad on Oct 25, 2006 17:43:54 GMT -5
I don't think any of you guys are getting the point. This might be a little oversimplified, but imagine a fantasy football draft. You have a guy that you really really like, but he's not one of the top rated guys. You draft him in the first round. Whether your gut instinct pays off or not, you are still an idiot because you could have gotten a top 10 guy and the guy you liked 3 or 4 rounds later.
Maybe Whitner wouldn't have been there for the Bill's next pick. Who cares. You can't make a pick for a guy just because you like him and someone else might take him. That's like a little kid that only shows interest in some toy when someone else starts playing with it. There's a lot of behind the scenes stuff that goes on during drafts. Sometimes teams fake interest in a player to make another team reach for him.
Bottom line is big name QBs out of the draft make a huge impact on a franchise if they pan out. A big name DB even if he's a GREAT
DB will have much less of an impact. It's a position where you can still win games if you have a slightly less talented player there. So either way you cut it, the Bills needed a QB and they missed the boat. You can say the hindsight garbage all you want. It wasn't about hindsight with the Bills. They knew Lossman hadn't lived up to expectations and had a shot at 2 QBs who most scouts said would be great NFL QBs.
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wally
Bevel in Training
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Post by wally on Oct 25, 2006 21:27:10 GMT -5
I don't think Losman should go by any stretch. I'm not willing to say he isn't the answer at QB, but I'm also not willing to say he is either.
I don't understand the animosity toward this guy. Last year, when Kelly Holcomb started the last game against the Jets, people were clamoring for Losman and couldn't understand why he wouldn't get to play, because he needed the game reps to develop and so on.
Now, he's getting the reps and all of a sudden that's not good enough either. Losman is that team's best chance to win at quarterback. Not Holcomb or Craig Nall.
There are a lot of mitigating factors to go along with this. The line still isn't good, there's no consistency running the ball and for some reason this staff likes to put people like Josh Reed under center from time to time.
All that being said, give Losman a full year, then we'll see. I have a feeling next year's training camp is going to be much like this year's, only with Losman and Nall going head-to-head instead of the three-way dance we got this season.
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Post by mikenice on Oct 25, 2006 22:21:34 GMT -5
Sorry Wally, but I'm getting some contradicting opinions from your posts.
In this one, you say it's too early to call Losman the solution or a bust in year 3.
Yet, earlier you were praising the Bills draft class after week 7. Yes, there are many draft picks playing and contributing. They're also contributing on a bad team.
If you can't pass judgement on a quarterback in the middle of his third year, I'd imagine it'd be hard to judge a draft class 7 months after it was selected.
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mrsmiff
Bevelator
Some would say that the Earth is *our* moon.
Posts: 160
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Post by mrsmiff on Oct 25, 2006 23:33:35 GMT -5
I dont know $hit about college football, and I won't care about it until they decide the national champion by using a 8 to 12 team tournament.
As far as the draft goes, the Bills needed a safety since they released Milloy. Call me crazy, but if I was the Bills GM and on my depth chart at strong safety were Coy Wire, Matt Bowen, and Jim Leonard, I wouldn't mind drafting a safety with the first pick. Whitner looks great so far and I hope he keeps developing.
I wasn't really mad to see them not draft a QB bc i thought Losman deserved a year to prove himself. Unfortunately he is not doing that. The pathetic O Line isn't helping the cause though. Is he doesn't turn his game around and win 3 or 4 more games, I think the Bills should strongly consider drafting a big name QB this yr.
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